Neighbors reacted with skepticism and anger last night as Georgetown University officials again presented plans to increase the graduate population to 8,750 – an increase of 2,475 over 2010 enrollment numbers. The expansion would be supported by a modest increase in on-campus housing (120 beds) and 700 to 1000 new parking spots.
The overflow crowd at Georgetown Visitation listens to the discussion on the University's expansion plans.
University spokesperson Linda Greenan’s statement that GU “doesn’t intend that there be changes in the plan before it files” with the District’s zoning commission brought groans from the audience. “This is another example of GU checking off the box so it can say it has held a public meeting but making no significant change to the plan,” said Citizens Association of Georgetown President Jennifer Altemus. CAG opposes the plan.
While lead planner Alan Brangman pointed out that the convocation center has been postponed, the height of construction on the “1789 block” reduced and the transportation plan revised as a result of community comment, GU provost James O’Donnell conceded that the enrollment figures had not changed since they were last presented to the community.
The details of planned construction was secondary to community members’ concern over what they see as unacceptable behavior and numbers of GU students already in off-campus housing in Burleith, Georgetown, Hillendale and Glover Park. GU’s argument that graduate students would not choose to live near campus was challenged by Burleith resident Virginia Kemble, “You are not listening to us,” she said to the GU officials.
Ann Kenkel, an interior decorator, said she never knows when a "toga party will erupt."
“It’s like type-casting,” said one attendee. “You have the sage university official with all the answers and the community that knows deeply what it’s like to live with students who don’t have a clue about living in a community. There are few points over which to reach a consensus or a compromise.”
Lenore Rubino, president of the Burleith Citizens Association, and Bob Avery of Foxhall stressed their desire to maintain a community that is diverse and welcoming to all, including homeowners, families, singles, renters and students. “We can’t let Burleith become a college town,” said Avery.
Dr. Todd Olson, Dean of Students, reiterated the University's commitment to work with residents.
As community members shared stories about students on neighborhood streets drunk in the middle of the afternoon, parents attempting to shelter their children from obscene language and parties that go to all hours, Dean of Students Dr. Todd Olson promised to work with residents to control student behavior. He described SNAP cars (GU-operated patrols that monitor potentially problematic student gatherings) and GU’s plan to have staff living in the community. GU student Molly Breen reported that when SNAP comes by “everybody quiets down really fast.”
Advisory Neighborhood Commission Chair, Ron Lewis, asks a question on the GU Hospital expansion plans.
20 Comments For This Article
It is completely obvious to all attendees last night that GU is much much more concerned about increasing its revenue while community be damned. GU will use all of its power, connections, and high dollar lawyers to continue to force its business growth plan despite its severe impact upon the community. GU is now acting like a greedy corporation that is polluting the surrounding community making its "widgets" and asking City officials to look the other way. GU the adjacent community is completely on to your game. It is time for the top management, president and board of directors at GU take some business ethics classes.
Sorry but I have made this argument numerous times before. If you don't want all the positives (and negatives) of living near a college campus...then don't live near a college campus.
GU has been there for longer than anyone who is living in that neighborhood. You moved near a campus. The campus didn't move into your neighborhood.
If you don't like the expansion (or the current situation) then move.
And yes it really is that simple.
GU was NOT on my block when I moved here over 10 years ago. It has grown from about 25% to over 50% of the homes on my block in a little over 10 years. You are a typical GU supporter that simply likes to ignore the facts, all so GU can continue its over-expansion into the surrounding neighborhoods. GU operates in the City of DC according to the zoning laws and DC comprehensive plan. GU Supporter you are acting like the big bully that GU itself is, and it is time GU start complying with the laws of DC.
"Georgetown Supporter," take off the Hoya-collored glasses so that you can see that Georgetown University IS INDEED muscling into our neighborhoods. Many of us appreciate living in a neighborhood that includes students, but DO NOT appreciate the university attempting to steamroll us with thousands more. Do you think our neighborhoods will become more desirable or less? Seriously.
I'm presuming you mean 25% of the neighbors on your block were GU related and now it's 50%.
That being said I STILL BLAME YOU!
YOU moved to a neighborhood near a campus on a block that has a very high percentage of residents on it that are related to the campus.
YOU could have moved to a different block, neighborhood, city, etc... If you are college student or employee in many cases your housing options are limited (budget, transportation, convenience, etc...).
So you knew what you were getting into when you moved in and now your are complaining after the fact. I have ZERO sympathy for you.
I hope more students "expand" into your neighborhood. That means we will be generating more educated people and getting rid of the ones less so like yourself.
FACT: GU moved closer to the residents. Not the other way around.
FACT: GU keeps expanding into the neighborhood.
FACT: The argument that residents moved close to GU is total BULLSHIT. GU is expanding.
FACT: GU lies about numbers, this is well documented.
FACT: Zoning Regulations limit what GU can do, not the otehr way around.
FACT: GU is damaging the area and negatively impacting the quality of life of DC residents. Not the other way around.
FACT: GU knows very well that their space is limited. Like any other business they should make their plans accordingly. Residents have been living there way longer that GU even existed.
GU should have bought more land when they started. They didn't. Tought luck. Go somewhere else now.
GU Supporter shows the type of bully and regard that GU has for the adjacent community.
Let me fix this solution with one simple word that even some of you showing your ignorance should understand...
MOVE!
Thank you, Dish, for giving the community a forum to discuss this. I'm thinking of other universities, and what they have done over the years. I'm especially familiar with Yale, which for decade after decade has held its undergraduate incoming class size to 1000. It's clear that Georgetown doesn't follow the Yale model, but I would be curious as to what model it sees for itself. The size of the student body can have a very deleterious effect on the quality of education that students receive. What do the students and alums think? And who is driving the decision-making?
Thank you, Dish, for giving the community a forum to discuss this. I'm thinking of other universities, and what they have done over the years. I'm especially familiar with Yale, which for decade after decade has held its undergraduate incoming class size to 1000. It's clear that Georgetown doesn't follow the Yale model, but I would be curious as to what model it sees for itself. The size of the student body can have a very deleterious effect on the quality of education that students receive. What do the students and alums think? And who is driving the decision-making?
I have lived in Burleith for over 30 years. When I moved here the primary concern was the impact of the soon-to-come Hillandale development. The BCA prepared well, making sure that all of the concessions we requested in return for support of Hillandale's BZA application were guaranteed by legal means.
The impact of the increasing student population at Georgetown University was not so easily discernible until the last 15 years or so, and the BCA was not able to be as effective during GU's 2000 BZA application. The neighborhood has paid dearly for that, and I wonder that the university isn't a bit more concerned about the results, such as the conditions its students accept in housing. You may think you are educating them, but we certainly don't see them doing anything to change their circumstances -- unless they move to another house at the end of the semester. We had one fire this year in a house that did not have a proper business license (unknown until the incident) -- neighbors were fortunate that the fire department only smashed in their front doors but suffered no other damage. And thankfully, none of the students in the house was hurt. If the university really wanted to "work with the community," they would make certain that every rental taken by a student -- you know exactly where they are -- was properly licensed and inspected. If owners really had to keep their properties up to code and the exteriors cleaned up, it might signal students that there are expectations for community-appropriate behavior as well. We work on this as a community, but we have become swamped as the number of rentals has skyrocketed.
It is clear that the proposed 2010 university plan will only make matters worse. The university should require on-campus housing for students through their junior year as a first step. If students know this is a requirement, they may fuss but it won't keep them from wanting the excellent education Georgetown provides.
I think your position is an oversimplification--akin to the position of "America, love it or leave it." By moving to a neighborhood near any university, one can reasonably expect to have major benefits (e.g., access to the arts, public lectures) and to certain disadvantages/costs--ah there's the rub: what are reasonable costs/disadvantages.
Here's where you're right--in my view, having student neighbors is not a cost, it's a benefit, just like having families with young children as neighbors is a benefit. You're right--if having student neighbors were the complaint, then only an idiot would move to a community neighboring a college (e.g., Burleith).
But that's not my complaint! My complaint is against neighbors who engage in unsafe and/or unacceptable behaviors often fueled by binge drinking. I object to ANY neighbor hosting a party with, say 50 people in attendance, many loudly talking/shouting...late into the night.
I suspect you're saying, "sorry, that comes with the package--all students do that." That view is, of course untrue--not all students behave in such ways. In fact, the problems we're complaining about are caused by a small minority of our neighbors...by a SMALL minority of our student neighbors.
I believe that the students who behave, in my view, in unacceptable ways do not behave that way at home (i.e., around their parents), at work, or in classes at universities. Why, because such behavior is not permitted/tolerated.
So, are you saying that students (or any resident) can binge drink, become intoxicated, publicly urinate, etc. at home but not at work or school? Where can people behave in such ways--the park? the beach? airplanes? rock concerts? When, where, why is such behavior tolerated?
I suppose your argument could be turned on its head: if you insist on behaving in unacceptable ways--get out!
I am still not clear what will be the actual impact of planned increased number of GU graduate students for the community. It does seem like the university is trying to increase its income, which is an unfortunate image since I have always held GU in a positive light because it is different from GW or AU, in terms of limited student-professor ratio and the care it gives to individual student's education. Also, does the number represent full time students, or part time and full time students? Presumably, part time students would most likely live else where. And what portion of the students normally live in the Georgetown neighborhood?
In the spirit of GU's Jesuit tradition, perhaps all students living off campus, in the neighborhood should regularly participate in community service to help maintain and improve the living environment.
While it may be a minority of students, what stands out most in the neighbourhood is the misbehaviors such as the loud parties, noise, littering, furniture being thrown out of the lawn...etc. It is really a shame that GU education based on its Jesuit tradition does not do more to encourage their students to be good citizens. Seeing students on a regular basis making an effort to help make the community a better place to live could help in reducing the tensions that we are encountering.
On a separate note, there is a great concern with the quality of off campus housing offered to students and lack of care/investment in the property by the owners. This is a huge safety issue not only for the students living there, but for the neighboring town houses (e.g. fire, gas leaks). The lack of owner's care also leads to a progressively more rundown properties in the neighborhood. Can GU do something to help address this issue? It should be of concern to the university given the safety concerns for their students.
The University has failed to make even the smallest changes in order to make this plan more palatable to the community. The proposed 1789 block development adds a dormitory and retail where there was none before, significantly affecting the quality of life of those of us already beset by parking congestion, traffic, and noise. Yes, I did move to a neighborhood near a campus. But adding a dormitory with 120 more students across the street from me is much more than an incremental or minor change. Unfortunately, moving won't be that simple- the value of my home will be diminished to the point where I won't be able to afford it.
I guess that emotional people will ALWAYS be emotional people. You do not own the streets, the air or anything else in Burleith other than your property. So guess what? Complain all you want, even form your silly underfunded opposition group!!! The reality is that there are nasty LANDLORDS that are greedy and LOVE to make money each day by renting their houses to students. Is this illegal - Doubt It! Does it make you angry and allow you to spew your anger and hatred towards the Georgetown Administration - Double Don't Doubt It!!! Should we focus on nasty rotten landlords and forget about the university for the time being. You are not that smart obviously. Let’s all band together and close Georgetown University down and watch in horror as housing prices plummet. Let’s take the GU buses off the roads so that MORE people will drive their cars causing traffic to rival that of all those EVIL suburbanites. YUCK, imagine for a moment living in Maryland or Virginia, we should tax them too just because they do and work here. Some of those communities are so non-diverse that it should make our skin crawl.
So settle down and remember this number – 911. It will be useful the next time an impromptu “Toga” party erupts on your front or back or side lawn(s). The last time that I checked DC Law, Toga parties were “Legal” and those 21 and older were “Legal” to drink alcohol at them. But our neighbor friend (she owns her house) that lives on the corner of 36th and S Streets who harbors feral cats is breaking the law, and that my friends is “ILLEGAL”. Acting "stupid" in college - "NOT ILLEGAL".
Bottom Line – The 20057 Zip Code will win in this silly and ridiculous community revolt and they should. And whoever believes that GRADUATE STUDENTS are bad for this community, please identify yourself so that we can help you. And another thing, rumor is that Duke Ellington School is going to be sold to Georgetown University. It will likely be transformed into a dormitory, but that shouldn’t affect the quality of life now, should it?!
Please try not to be so angry and immotional,illogical and non-helpful. You seem to be observant and astute and a person who takes an interest. Your input could be very helpful if you could avoid blasting people. Young people are a wonderful addition to any community and I'm sure everyone would agree with that.
So the neighbor who started the website DrunkenGeorgetownStudents.com has been revealed. It's a bit disconcerting living in a neighborhood with an older man taking pictures of me and my other roommates since none of us are even of the legal drinking age. Isn't this a crime?
http://creepyburleithguy.com
the old guy taking photos of college kids has obviously been disturbed enough to take matters into his own hands. it is unfortunate permanent neighbors in the community are so frustrated with GU, that some are taking extreme measures (legal or not) to combat the university. why does GU continue to force this on both the community and its students? GU should reevaluate its business ethics. if GU continues to expand further into the neighborhood, the situation will only get worse for EVERYONE
Oh dear Lord, now us people in Georgetown, Burleith, Foxhall Village and Glover Park residents are going to have to pay more in taxes. Please read below, as we should ALL band together and fight the Evil Real Estate agents who don't live in our neighborhoods but come to inflate the value of our houses and stuff their greedy pockets with big commision checks. UGH!! On second thought, lets blame Georgetown University. They seem to be responsible for everything bad in our area. I'll bet the people in Spring valley are angry with American University for doing all that construction and it not helping one bit with their housing values.
D.C. housing prices are jumping higher in April, according to news reports. The average listing price in Georgetown is $2,232,264, a 2.6% week over week increase, according to Tulia. In Foxhall Village, the average listing was $1,402,509, a 2.2% rise. Embassy Row boasted an average listing price of $2,263,929, reflecting a 10.6% increase. Foxhall Crescent and Spring Valley homes faced downward pricing pressure of 1.4%, according to the online real estate site.
Dear Jack DeGioia:
Stop your greedy actions of destroying the community for the sake of $$$$. We have seen corporations do this many times before only to have their actions implode on them. You have a serious community revolt that you are either ignoring or your staff is not telling you about.
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